Shotguns don't nesessarily need a buff because if you put Damage or Range WP on them, the gun becomes very good. Model 1887/Spas-12 are beast with Damage. Striker is really good without a WP, I think Striker needs a little nerf. However, KSG-12 and USAS12 are total garbage. I totally agree that they need some sort of buff.
What shotguns actually need is a balance ..........
There are 2 types of shotgun - pump action and semi-auto. Each should have it's good points and bad points ....
Pump Action - slower fire rate, but more range/damage
Semi-Auto - high fire rate, but reduced range/damage
If the weapons in a class have these stats, it's called balance. Each has an advantage and disadvantage over other weapons in it's class, and will suit different people.
Shotguns in MW3 DO NOT have this balance. Pump Action shotguns have less range and damage than Semi Auto's, shown by the number of times you will miss/get hitmarkers with each type. The Striker is the most powerful shotgun in it's class, but it's a Semi Auto. The Spaz is a Pump Action yet comes 3rd in the list (the Model is an easy 2nd, though limited by it's ammo). Not 1 of the Pump Action shotguns is a real viable alternative to the Striker, which is backwards.
Add Range/Damage proficiencies, and the Striker is actually ALMOST OP, I've seen/been done by a Striker outshooting an SMG/AR/LMG at some stupid ranges, where an SMG should destroy a Striker user.
ok let's fix Shotguns. My thoughts on if i could update them in a patch:
SPAS12 buff current dmg to 35 - 15 w/8 pellets. Dmg prof gives it 49 - 21. It (w/Dmg prof) would be the MW2 ver. Range by default would be again MW2 range and adding to it the Range Prof on top of it should extend the droppoff dmg out more. To balance just lower the pump speed a bit by an extra 0.4-0.5 sec
USAS12 buff long range dmg to 25 - 15 w/6 pellets. Dmg prof gives it 35 - 21. Range Prof will extend it to past the SPAS12's range. RoF increase from 139 to 200. Reload speed increased to contrast AA12
KSG12 - buff close range to 30 but lower long range to 10 with 6 pellets. Shotgun will have slightly longer range than SPAS12 by default and slow damage dropoff but only 6 pellets thus needing 2 shells most of the time. Dmg Prof will buff it to 42 - 20. Range Prof will give it MW2 masterkey range. pump speed will be slightly increased to contrast SPAS12 by 0.25-0.4
AA12 - slight buff of base dmg to 20 - 10 and 8 pellets. Range remains what it is now by default but adding Range Prof gives it Striker range. Dmg prof buffs it to 28 - 15 and dropoff is extened. will otherwise retain everything it had before.
Striker - the only gun to keep everything as it is...
Model 1887 - give it the MW2 stats of 35 - 20 and 8 pellets. Also will be given 2 attachments (thus giving a reason to use the attachments proficiency it gets but is currently useless) it can use, grip and Silencer/Suppressor. It'll have the same range (solo not bugged dual 1887s) as MW2 but with the lever cycling speed of MW3. Range Prof extends it just past the SPAS12 range. Damage Prof makes it a scary 49 - 30 but dmg drops off quick. why so deadly? will explain below.
General - Grip attachment - Pump action shotguns helps increase pump speed by a little bit. For auto/semi auto shotguns increases swap speed to the gun.
Ext Mags - keep them bugged as it is and make it officially by design. since the 1887 won't get Ext Mags, it's Dmg Prof gives it a sort of buff to compensate.
Optical sights - lets give them a reason to be on shotguns. Using a red dot or a holo sight as you ADS with tighten the pellet spread.
thoughts? concerns? am I crazy?
I do think all shotgun do need a bit of a buff but the striker need to lower it speed or the shot it have. Also lower the striker range it should not be a 3 shot from half of the map for most map. becuse striker is just like a AS50 with it fire rate, damage, and range. which make it a op gun becuse a shotgun should not be able to be as go as a sniper at long range.
You know what? Maybe you need a buff? You ever think about that?
Perhaps you could do with getting a little more buff. You should try P90x, been doing in for 5 months, works wonderfully. That Tony Horton's a fun guy, he's super buff too. He doesn't need stronger shotguns.
There are three types of shotguns: Pump-action, semi-auto, and fully-auto.
Pump-action shotguns should be beast even without Range or Damage, with every shot as powerful as the Striker is now; it's just that their slow fire rate makes them unspammable, and if you miss the first shot you're at a severe disadvantage.
Semi-auto shotguns should have spammable and moderately-powerful pellets. They should be able to kill in one shot at very close range, but they should be able to kill IN A FEW SHOTS at close-med range. They're basically your jack-of-all-trades shotgun; they don't specialize in any way, but they are given decent damage and range as well as a good fire rate.
Fully-auto shotguns should NEVER kill in one hit; instead, they're like the Masterkey attachment, just fully-auto. With that, it's very easy to empty a clip, but they still have a long reload time, so fully-autos favor players that are able to control how many pellets go into someone and avoiding overkill, but are essentially the most powerful weapon in the game at CQC.
Any patches made on shotguns should follow these guidelines.
I have participated in dozens of these threads so here we go again.
Spas- damage proficiency boosts damage to 35-21 firing 12 pellets (same range / rate of fire as it is now)
Ksg- damage proficiency increases damage to 50-20 firing 9 pellets ( 8ft. less range than spas and slightly slower rate of fire make up for good close range damage)
1887- damage proficiency increases damage to 50-25 firing 8 pellets and has damage drop at 300 inches like the current version but the spread should be slightly smaller than the spas without steady aim. They should have the same spread with steady aim. ( no proficiencies, smaller clip, and late unlock make up for good damage and hip spread.)
Striker- same damage as now but make 9 pellets an attachment called "magnum ammo" so you don't have a rediculaously huge clip. And give it slightly more recoil. The striker now does the same damge, has the same rate of fire, and same range as the mw2 m1014 without stopping power. The smaller clip and higher recoil on the 1014 balanced that gun out nicely. So I think making the striker act similarly will balance it in mw3.
AA12- 5 ft. more range and one more clip of starting ammo. (havent used it much because it has the range of a sword.)
USAS12- 35-10 with damage proficiency increase rof to 200 per minute (I havent used this gun much but the little I did i found it lacking punch at range and rate of fire compared to striker.)
I don't want them to do anything to the base weapons because if they make these changes I want people to have to earn this stuff by working through a bad weapon to get it.
My idea from another thread:
Everyone always says that the Model needs a damage buff or something, but I don't think that's the real problem with it. If you've played Spec Ops, then you'd noticed that when you shoot, you cock the lever with enough speed to get another shot off, but in online, you cock the lever so slow that it's almost a guaranteed death if you didn't kill the guy with one shot. So maybe just increase the speed that you cock the lever, so that you actually have a chance to get a second shot off. Good idea?
Currently Being ModeratedJan 18, 2012 11:16 PM (in response to Aero_Stryker)Re: Shotguns NEED a buff.
The magazine size on the 1887 is so small that a rof increase would not be an effective solution to the problem. Also unless the enemy is stupid even if they gave it 160 rpm every gun can still kill you before you get your next shot. Making the 1887 do more damage up close and tightening its spread solves the problem far better.
I think Bowling said they were looking into nerfing Striker and buffing other shotties.
Personally I think part of the problem is the range of the melee knife is a hair too long...might just be me though.