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6729 Views 48 Replies Latest reply: May 1, 2012 8:04 AM by Convict7 RSS
WpFdBladeX Apprentice 147 posts since
Nov 14, 2011
Currently Being Moderated

Apr 26, 2012 5:34 PM

Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

Hello forums,

 

Ever since Rapid Fire was introduced into the Call of Duty scene, it has brought a little versatility to some weapons but in general it has brought more cons than pros.

 

Needless to say it also has brought the same type of weapon to become hard to balance and eventually turning into the most dominant weapon type in Call of Duty games since CoD4 (credit to McZombie).

 

With the introduction of Rapid Fire on CoD4 as Double Tap (credit to McZombie), all maps were dominated by AK-74u Rapid fire players even maps in which other types of weapon would exploit their advantages far more than a Sub-machinegun. Shotguns would be the only way to challenge the CQ rule of Subs, but it would take incredible skill to deal heavy power instantly and accurately.

 

Subs are small, fast moving, slightly higher rate of fire, but don't pack a heavy punch. So they would rule short range situations and close combat instead of medium-long open areas where Sniper Rifles, LMGs and Assault Rifles would rule because of high power and better range.

 

So in Black Ops the Ak74-u had to get re-designed to make it work without being overpowered with Rapid Fire, and still working without having to use Rapid Fire.

 

Now Sub-machine guns have to be designed to work well on their one and then work well with Rapid Fire without being overpowered.

 

On MW3 now we have short range maps everywhere with some long range situations where submachine guns completely reign... Rapid Fire+Silencer becomes such an easy choice because it maxes out your firepower capacity without any consecuence. It doesn't even come at the cost of Sleight of Hand now.

Black ops required you to switch Sleight of Hand for Warlord, hindering your ability to reload fast but pushing your firepower to it's max.

 

While using 2 Attachment Weapon Proficiency does cost you another type of Proficiency but it's a minimal cost, having to deal with recoil is nothing harsh, damage-drop-off is basically unexistent in this game as 85% of the situations are short-mid range.

 

We come to the following paradox.

Should Rapid Fire continue in Call of Duty games? Since it has been out in 2 different games now it has a consistent player base that has gotten used to playing with Rapid Fire and could deal a blow to the overall Call of Duty player base. But rapid fire also comes at a ridiculous cost of all weapons becoming useless against Rapid Fire Submachine guns in short range situations.

 

While it does help to place Subs at an even situation vs Assault Rifles it comes at the cost of making Subs the weapon of choice with no match to deal with them except skilled play.

 

So what's your opinion... Rapid Fire in the next games. Yes or no?

I say we should keep Rapid Fire, but the developer team should actually look at rapid fire and think very well about how they will toll a player for using Rapid Fire (as on CoD4 or BO)... and not how the Dev Team is doing it right now... "Well.. let's just make all guns shoot mighty fast.. why the hell not?"

  • Adam1235678 Apprentice 411 posts since
    Mar 15, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 2:46 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Yes

  • sovietcookie Master 1,728 posts since
    Feb 11, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 3:58 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    I say yes and no, it should be available on certain gins that really need it.

    Not on like a overpowered gun like the AK-74u or something.

  • N1ckx2 Apprentice 83 posts since
    Feb 18, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 4:03 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    This is the same reson why akimbo should only be availible on regular pistols and not machine pistols.

  • McZOMBI Expert 669 posts since
    Nov 12, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 4:17 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Rapid Fire (or Double Tap) has been in every game since COD4 so I'm just kind of used to it now. However, they really should look to balance the percentage boost to ROF across the different SMGs.

     

    They've tried to do it in MW3 but made an arse of it, MP5 gets a 23.3% boost while the PP90M1 gets a 32.1% boost. Doesn't make any sense considering they must've known certain weapons would be OP with Rapid Fire, they gave the MP7 only gets a reasonable 11% boost.

     

    So yeah, I say keep Rapid Fire but make it so that all SMGs get the same ROF while using it. Meaning that it would make average guns good but not make good guns unstoppable.

    • LuRcHED Apprentice 680 posts since
      Nov 12, 2011
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 26, 2012 4:23 PM (in response to McZOMBI)
      Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      I agree with you. I saw Tmartn video explaining the % of increase on ROF. All SMG's should have the same increase % of ROF when rapid fire is used.

      • McZOMBI Expert 669 posts since
        Nov 12, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 26, 2012 4:30 PM (in response to LuRcHED)
        Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

        That's not what I'm saying. I guess I'm saying ROF should be capped when using RF, making it more of an advantage on weaker weapons. Basically the same as MW3 but spend more time balancing the percentages.

  • Apprentice 146 posts since
    Apr 21, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 4:37 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Almost black ops 2 and i still don't understand why people say that the 74u was overpowered because atleast for me it is just a normal gun...

     

    And btw my opinion is that they should remove the rapid fire attachment and just increase the fire rate of every SMG to about a 10-15% but reduce their accuracy.

    • sovietcookie Master 1,728 posts since
      Feb 11, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 26, 2012 4:40 PM (in response to callmecrunch)
      Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      Well it was overpowered with rapid fire.

      • nintendon\'t Master 3,907 posts since
        Jul 16, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 27, 2012 3:27 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
        Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

        Rapid Fire doesn't even work on the PP90M1....

          • nintendon\'t Master 3,907 posts since
            Jul 16, 2011
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 27, 2012 5:53 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
            Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

            It has no effect on the Wii version. Rapid fire doesn't work on guns with an RPM of 1000+. It's all in your head lol.

              • Newbie 1 posts since
                May 1, 2012
                Currently Being Moderated
                May 1, 2012 6:38 AM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
                Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

                I used a stopwatch to test the Fire rates in a private match a few months ago. The PP90M1 empties its 36-round magazine in around 2.4s, regardless of wether it has Rapid Fire or not, giving it an unchanged fire rate of 900RPM. In fact, almost every automatic gun in the Wii version of MW3 has one of 2 fire rates.

                 

                600RPM:

                All automatic AR's (minus FAD)

                M16A4 burst

                All LMG's

                PKP Pecheneg (RF)

                M60E4 (RF)

                MP5

                UMP45

                P90

                Skorpion

                 

                900RPM:

                FAD

                M16A4 burst (RF)

                Type 95 burst (Base & RF)

                MP5 (RF)

                P90 (RF)

                PP90M1 (Base & RF)

                PM-9 (Base & RF)

                MP7 (RF)

                L86 LSW (RF)

                MG36 (RF)

                MK46 (RF)

                FMG9

                MP9

                G18

                 

                Other:

                MP7 - 700RPM

                UMP45 (RF) - 850RPM

                 

                Rapid Fire doe not work on:

                PP90M1

                PM-9

                Type 95

                PKP Pecheneg

                M60E4

                 

                Feel free to test this yourself

  • sovietcookie Master 1,728 posts since
    Feb 11, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 5:10 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Remember in W@W and MWR when you would have a good attachment on your gun such as noob toob or grip, it would take away your first perk? They should do that with rapid fire, and then people would think twice before using it.

  • alexjt22 Apprentice 957 posts since
    May 23, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 5:20 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    I dislike rapid fire because it allows the smgs to become too dominent at short range which they are already pretty dominent at and it also allows them to become dominent at a greater range which creeps into assault rifles dominent range.

     

    You take rapid fire out of the game and shotguns become the best at extremly short range and then you have SMGs being dominent at short range and assault rifle at mid range which is how it should be, while if kept in no matter what balencing unless they add extreme recoil which still wouldnt solve it becoming extremly dominent at extremely close to short ranges.

     

    The biggest problem i have with it is it rewards sprayers more than it should, there is no worse feeling than getting a few shots into someone before they fire a shot only for them to spray a SMG with rapid fire for you to instanta die .

     

    I have hope it will be removed and that the next COD will be better balenced in the gun area because of a quote on twitter from vahn where he mentions rapid fire and other attachments and perks make it impossible to balence and the only true way to balence guns would be to remove theses aspects and have a gun that is great at a few things and no so great at other things which cannot be improved upon with perks or attachments.

  • Apprentice 514 posts since
    Apr 17, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 5:18 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Yes, keep rapid fire.

     

    And to your comment to the first poster, no, FMG9s are not overpowered. They are simply popular.

  • GameVictim Novice 39 posts since
    Nov 25, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 26, 2012 5:22 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Rapid Fire should only be avaliable to weapons that go below a certain RPM.This would make it so that you can buff some slow shooters and not have everyone running around with bullet hoses of death (obvious example:PP90M1).

     

    It's a nice touch on LMGs,a weak point of them has always been a slow fire rate,and hightened recoil will only balance it out further.

  • godmsack Expert 371 posts since
    Mar 28, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 6:42 AM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    Very interesting discussion. I honestly think that the guns in the game should be more realistic of their real life conterparts. Most smg's can be made to have a higher rate of fire. But there are always consequences. These consequences don't seem to make it to the game realistically. It is rediculous that some of the weapons have the range that they do. I mean a pistol shooting across the map, not gonna happen in rl. All I am saying is change some aspects of the game mechanics so that if you do choose to use rapid fire that there are some real consequences. Maybe have the gun jam and have to reload occasionally, increase the recoil (although in real life some weapons seem to smooth out when the cyclic rate is increased). Some of this hip firing stuff is almost rediculous. Most weapons if shot from the hip would react way different than the game mechanics show.Plus some weapons just can't be made to shoot faster, or there is a tipping point that isn't realistically shown in game. From what I heard the newest COD will have a different perk structure so that might help as well. Personally I don't see a problem with some one running assasin and a silenced weapon, and see no reason to make changes. Some form of assassin has been in the game since MWR.

  • Rythmmastr Novice 167 posts since
    Nov 8, 2011
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 27, 2012 3:14 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    I had a feeling this was going to be one of those "(random feature/attachment) ruined COD" threads

    • sovietcookie Master 1,728 posts since
      Feb 11, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 27, 2012 4:28 PM (in response to Rythmmastr)
      Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      And was it?

      • Rythmmastr Novice 167 posts since
        Nov 8, 2011
        Currently Being Moderated
        Apr 27, 2012 6:03 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
        Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

        I think the entire system needs to be overhauled for Black Ops 2

          • godmsack Expert 371 posts since
            Mar 28, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 27, 2012 9:29 PM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
            Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

            I like where you're going with this. Make some of the other perks more valuable and even things out. It would be nice to see some perk combos actually working together to create an "extra" perk. Say taking some of the under used perks and when put together get a bonus result. I have an idea to balance out rapid fire. Just make clip sizes smaller. This in and of itself would do wonders. Instead of a gun like the p90 shooting forever with rapid fire and extended mags put together.

          • AZHood Newbie 28 posts since
            Mar 16, 2012
            Currently Being Moderated
            Apr 28, 2012 3:16 AM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
            Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

            Stalker Pro makes placed explosives useless, not Recon. Only inexperienced players level up Recon with claymores and bouncing betties and not utilzing their equipment to the fullest. Recon, in its base and pro form, is not a useless perk, as it gives us our only real counter against Assassin users.

             

            Perhaps a possible change to Rapid Fire would be to add an increase to hipfire spread along with higher recoil on weapons using Rapid Fire. It won't do much up close, but when you look at verstaile weapons like the PP90M1, it would put a damper in short-medium to medium range spray'n'pray effectiveness. Increased recoil doesn't put a dent in when using Kick, especially when a quick burst is all you need to get kills. Perhaps increased hipfire spread could make a difference, even if only slightly.

             

            Honestly, I believe it will come down to a few small fixes instead of one big fix to Rapid Fire, should it be reworked.

  • Wozny Apprentice 342 posts since
    Jan 23, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    Apr 28, 2012 5:00 AM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
    Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

    I hate Rapid Fire in General and have it baned in my clan Except on the M16A4. On BO NO RF AT ALL. It needs to be like CoD4 where it replaced a Perk slot. But the bad part is some hackers would hack the perk right back in. I say Take RF out as well as akimbo on machine pistols.

    • godmsack Expert 371 posts since
      Mar 28, 2012
      Currently Being Moderated
      Apr 28, 2012 11:15 AM (in response to Wozny)
      Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

      @wonzy, banning a feature built into the game. Makes no sense to me. I guess if you have a clan of one, or a bunch of piss boys with no back bones that might work.

       

      @azhood, I think your idea of larger spread when hip firing will likely backfire making the weapon even more OP. The reason i think  this is that the mp40 in WAW had the largest hip fire spread of the smgs and it was beast with double tap. It will bring back hip firing  and make ADS go away.

       

      I honestly think, once again, the only way to balance rapid fire is to make the clip sizes smaller. 

        • Convict7 Master 1,257 posts since
          Dec 20, 2011
          Currently Being Moderated
          May 1, 2012 8:04 AM (in response to WpFdBladeX)
          Re: Rapid Fire & Call of Duty

          I don't see a problem about "banning" certain attachments or weapons. At least your clan won't get the reputation of another typical group tryhards, but this usually ends up to a drama and other BS inside the clan so, it isn't too good idea at the end.

           

          Then again the idea is rather silly, I use OP guns every once in a while because even though I hate akimbo MPs etc. it is still part of my playing style, I run out of ammo, I want to handle any weapon I can find from the ground.

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