Currently Being ModeratedOct 13, 2011 4:09 AM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)MW3 - A repeat of history
I doubt MW3 will have anything that even comes close to OMA+DC noobtubes in terms of BS...
Quickscoping & MLC wasn't really a problem tbh. Could be annoying at times, but that's about it. Most good players see them as easy kills
Currently Being ModeratedOct 13, 2011 9:57 AM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)MW3 - A repeat of history
I'd just issue the one caveat that you shouldn't ever underestimate the willingness of any player to use something that's effective. Don't get me wrong, I find things like the tubes, commando lunges, UMP, recoilless automatics, and akimbos absolutely insufferable. But I'd wager that most people who use any of these don't do it just to troll everyone else, they do it just because they don't enjoy dying or losing. I wouldn't blame the 'community' as I would the developers who make the mistake of adding in very horribly-designed items to the multiplayer experience.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 13, 2011 10:15 AM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)MW3 - A repeat of history
Correction: Since COD3 I have never been excited about a Treyarch launch day, including Black Ops.
And who the hell is their dorky community manager guy?? Geez, he sure doesn't help them out.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 12:32 AM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)MW3 - A repeat of history
As much as I agree with you, 402 did say it is "THE most balanced multiplayer they've ever made" so hopefully that and the shitty community can even out to create something awesome and not frusturating!
So far COD4 has the most balanced multiplayer of all the perk-based COD games. They have a lot to live up to if they want to top COD4. I agree with you. Hopefully something cool and skillful comes around this time instead of something annoying like QS, OMA, MLC. Hopefully the game is as balanced as they say it is and there's variety in what people use instead of using one or two guns all the time (W@W: MP40 MW2: UMP45 BO: AK74u [Pre-patch] Famas). It can be argued that the M16 and MP5 in COD4 were overpowered but I disagree.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 4:12 AM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
I do have concerns for MW3.
When you look at MW2 & Black Ops, we weren't prepared for the worse whether it was lag/poor hit detection or unbalanced perks.
Now, we are questioning everything about MW3 (Which is a good thing, in my opinion)
Is this going to to be overpowered?
Is stacking pointstreaks a good thing?
Is this perk going to overpower the rest?
With MW2, we were never prepared for the worst.
Did we realise that the "Commando" perk was going to be ridiculous?
Did we realise OMA/Danger Close and unlimited noobtubes as a game-breaking element in MW2?
Was the nuke going to encourage boosting?
Did we realise "Second Chance" in Black Ops was going to be frustrating?
No we didn't unfortunately.
I'm glad we saw the multiplayer and that some of the community got to try it out.
I've heard alot of pros but I did hear a few negatives including deathstreaks coming back.
Let's hope they won't be a problem in MW3.
With MW2, we were never prepared for the worst.
You're right. With MW2 we were expecting an improved version of COD4, the best fps ever made. Perks and killstreaks weren't a heavy part of COD4, they just gave you a little extra edge. Stopping Power and Juggernaut are both crap perks with no place in a shooter, but at least they were both in the game, so they could cancel each other out. MW2 hit us all like a ton of bricks. The sheer level of bs in that game was just breathtaking. My theory is that the (now) Respawn guys intentionally put a bunch of garbage in the game as an act of sabotage. Even if IW had tried to support the game, they just wouldn't have been able to fix all the broken stuff. The game needed a complete overhaul from the ground up to make it balanced, and there's no way any game develoepr is going to do that after launch. I hope they are right and that MW3 is a truly balanced game, but I have my doubts. It does look promising so far, though.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 2:35 AM (in response to shadowthief)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
"You're right. With MW2 we were expecting an improved version of COD4, the best fps ever made. Perks and killstreaks weren't a heavy part of COD4, they just gave you a little extra edge. Stopping Power and Juggernaut are both crap perks with no place in a shooter, but at least they were both in the game, so they could cancel each other out. MW2 hit us all like a ton of bricks. The sheer level of bs in that game was just breathtaking."
that was exactly what i thought of mw2. but if what 402 said about making this game about the gunplay rather then killstreaks, this game could be as good if not better then cod4
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 3:21 AM (in response to shadowthief)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
Even if IW had tried to support the game, they just wouldn't have been able to fix all the broken stuff. The game needed a complete overhaul from the ground up to make it balanced
The OMA+DC Noobtube is the biggest problem with MW2, it could have been fixed easily which makes it even more disappointing they didn't..
Which game breaking issues are you talking about exactly?
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 3:52 AM (in response to jamesafc)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
Which game breaking issues are you talking about exactly?
1. Nuke. With killstreak stacking, high level killstreaks were way too common. Without ks stacking, the nuke would have been incredibly rare, which was probably how IW thought it would be. I saw many nukes. A game ending killstreak is just BS, unless it is almsot impossible to obtain. Objective modes were sometimes ruined by campers focsuing on getting the nuke. I think the Nuke was meant to be one of those "once in a lifetime" things you'd almost never see, but it was very plentiful. You can get a Nuke with only 5 actual bullet kills. The Nuke just might be remembered as the worst addition ever to a multiplayer game.
2. Killstreak stacking- As I said above, this made high level killstreaks much easier, and thus more common. It's not a display of skill when a guy sits in a corner and lets an AI controlled killstreak earn more killstreaks for him.
3. Infinite claymores- Made campers much harder to deal with. This paired with #2 above made things worse.
4. Inifinte noobtubes/RPGs via Scavenger or OMA (no explanation needed).
5. Danger Close- Worst perk ever created by man. Explosives should be for certain situations only. MW2 is heavily spammed by explosives, which are already powerful enough without DC.
6. No real counter to explosives- Blast Shield was a joke. It didn't protect from non-Danger Close explosives, AND it obscured your minimap! If they had buffed Blast Shield, MW2 would have been MUCH more playable.
7. MLC- This is an issue of perk balance. If even two of these perks had been in the same tier, this class would not exist. I see at least one MLC knifer in every match, evn to thsi day. And it's not like an MLC guy will go 56-3, but he will still get cheap kills.
8. Quickscoping too easy with SoH pro. QS was balanced in COD4, WaW and Black Ops. In MW2 it was too easy, which is why you will always see several QSers in every single match. A long range one-shot kill gun should be very hard to use at close range. That is the very essence of balance. I'm not really anti-quickscoping, but for balance it needs to be really hard to get a kill at close range with a sniper rifle.
9. Overpowered, easy to obtain air support- Again, ks stacking made air support too common. I can't remeber the last match I had where I didn't see the Predator followed imedtiately by Harrier combo, usually shortly followed by pavelow or chopper gunner. Yes you can shoot them down, but the sky seems to be full of air support in every match. This is one thing Bowling has specifically said will be different in MW3.
10. Tactical Insertion boosting- Game ruining. FFA and Barebones were basically unplayable due to boosting. Treyarch got it right, and disabled TI in FFA. Just about every Nuke emblem you see was probably boosted for. I like to play FFA, and that mode was ruined in MW2.
11. UMP45- There was a reason the forums were packed with people complaining about this gun. Put a silencer on it, and you can snipe people at long range, even at full auto! You got SMG mobility, and decent clip size and SMG reload/ADS time. This may not fall into the "game breaking" category, but the gun was definitely overpowered, no doubt about it. An SMG should only be useful at close to mid range. At long range it should be impossible to use (again, a balance issue). However, I will take an UMP user over an MLC or noobtuber any day.
I can enjoy COD4, WaW and Black Ops just fine. But if I go into a match of MW2, it is a near constant spamming of noobtubes, air support, MLC knifers and quickscopers. Hardly anybody plays straight up gun on gun in MW2, and that's why I consider it a broken game. You are more likely to die from air support, explosives or knife than by bullets.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 4:10 AM (in response to esmorgue)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
Sonic Boom wasn't a problem in COD4. It competed with Stopping Power, Juggernaut & UAV Jammer
Also grenade launchers was a perk and I rarely saw players use it.
In regards to Juggernaut, it never bothered me at all.
Snipers hated it though. I remember getting into a number of COD4 sniper lobbies & used my anti-sniper class, the silenced MP5 with Juggernaut.
I hope the ballistic vests are useful against snipers. I'm setting this up in my support class custom class which will give all my teammates anti-sniper vests.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 4:08 AM (in response to esmorgue)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
Sonic Boom is a bad perk, but it was uncommon because all the other perks in its tier were so good (stopping power, juggernaut, uav jammer, double tap, overkill, sleight of hand). Sleight of hand + noobtubes is part of why it's so easy to spam in MW2. Plus, if you used noobtube, you couldn't use a tier 1 perk! So if you wanted to noobtube in COD4 with sonic boom, you gave up a whole lot of good perks. I've played a lot of COD4, and noobtube spam isn't that common. I do think grenades are too pwerful in that game, and 3xFrag+Sonic boom makes them worse, but I could probably count on one hand the number of times I've seen anyone use that setup. COD4 isn't perfect, but it is a pretty balanced game.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 4:02 AM (in response to shadowthief)MW3 - A repeat of history
I can enjoy COD4, WaW and Black Ops just fine. But if I go into a match of MW2, it is a near constant spamming of noobtubes, air support, MLC knifers and quickscopers. Hardly anybody plays straight up gun on gun in MW2, and that's why I consider it a broken game. You are more likely to die from air support, explosives or knife than by bullets
Exactly, MW2 was based on how good you were with explosives & AI Killstreaks rather than your gun skill.
I don't see how some players can go back to MW2 and adjust to the explosive spamming & killstreak whoring as it is.
I gave up a couple of months ago on MW2. I just don't see why some players still want to boost in an old game, why some players still play cheap & don't realise how much they screwed up a decent game. It really shows how immature our community are.
Find one exploit, spread it & screw up the game.
As much as I appreciate the great connectivity I get in MW2, the unbalance just puts me right off.
I thought weapon balance was great in MW2. The UMP and ACR didn't bother me too much but secondary shotguns were my only concern.
Snipers...well I not going to say anything,...don't want to upset the sniping community.
I hope IW stick to their word when it comes to maintaining the game during the COD life-cycle via patches and regular updates.
Also, let's hope the Stealth Clown doesn't disappear this time
Currently Being ModeratedOct 14, 2011 4:17 AM (in response to shadowthief)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
Well you will be pleased to know most of those won't be returning in MW3
- I agree that stackable killstreaks did make it easy to get the higher killstreaks, but this was mainly due to the Harrier. Without it, it would've been a lot harder.
Also, the killstreaks were only overpowered if the team on the receiving end allowed them to be - On a team of 6, all it takes is one person to shoot them down. I hardly get killed by harriers/choppers and I've never been nuked, simply because I shoot down air support.
- Explosives - This is the one I agree with you on about being game breaking, they should've atleast made it so Scavenger/OMA didn't replenish noobtubes.
- MLC & Quickscopers - I personally didn't find them a problem, they didn't dominate at all, just blindly ran around and occasionally went positive - Most good players see them as easy kills.
- I agree with you on the TI boosting in FFA, it's my favourite gamemode but the first 6 months+ it was unplayable due to the boosters. They could've just taken the TI out of FFA
- The UMP wasn't overpowered, it was a good all round gun but that's about it. Lots of guns were better than it at close range, and assault rifles were a lot more accurate at long range.
I understand and have the same concerns myself now. Not as far as what is going to be overpowered, and things of such nature. I highly anticipated Black Ops only because the hacks in MW2. The info that we received on the game was limited. They only seemed to want to brag about wager matches. This game has gave you more somewhat indepth info into all the different options. I feel that there are things that can go wrong but in the days after the release we wont see the real complaints.
Some will complain just because its not Black Ops. That things do not seem like Black Ops.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 22, 2011 10:26 PM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
There's no doubt there will be balance issues. The key is post-launch support and listening to what the community wants changed. Treyarch patched a lot of annoying things in Black Ops and their support saved their game to an extent - it's just that you can't patch the problem that it is dull and boring. IW games are generally more exciting and longer lasting, but they have a terrible record when it comes to listening to the community and supporting/patching the game post launch. Hopefully now that Sledehammer games is helping them, they can break the mould this time.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 31, 2011 3:59 PM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
You want a bad community? www.leagueoflegends.com go check out their forums. Call of duty community is very miled compared to other hardcore gaming communities.
Anyways games are always hiped up before launch, IW didn't spend millions on the reveal for nothing. Game never live up fully to the hipe given pre-launch.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 31, 2011 5:01 PM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
Not only did BO have major connectivity issues, but it was the most generic, trite, and bland shooter I've played since I can remember.
"But, but... IT'S BALANCED GUISE!"
Black Ops was actually unbalanced in two key areas. Perks, and arsenal.
I find it funny that the only argument propnents of Black Ops seem to have is... "It's more balanced than MW2" or "At least it's not MW2, that crap game."
It's not MW2. Wow, that's fantastic. Shouldn't a game be praised on it's own merit?
Currently Being ModeratedOct 31, 2011 5:05 PM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
From the looks, it seems a hell of a lot more balanced than MW2. They've announced the issues such as OMA+Noobtubes, Commando, last stand.
OMA is completely removed.
Noobtubes are said 'to be completely' rebalanced from their state in MW2 + with the addition of Blast Sheild(Flak Jacket) one can only assume they are not going to be anywhere near as big of a problem as they were in MW2.
Commando has been completely removed and the knife lunge has been said 'to be completely rebalance' but that's also what treyarch said and look how that turned out. So we will all have to wait 7 days to find out if it's true.
Black Ops Problems:
A major frustration in Black ops was the lag issues so many people never seized to complain about. From experience, most people are saying that the connection will be good because IW has good connections in their games, and I for one have never experience hit-detection problems/lag problems to the extent that I've experienced in black ops.
Next there was the top 3-4 guns that were the top on peoples combat records due to them being 'over-powered' in comparison to all the others. Robert Bowling has said that IW's beleifs are fast paced actions which means very strong guns, so people are assuming that their will be more of a variety in weapon selection then the previous title + with the adition of Proficiencies it further allows the player to use different types of guns in different types of play styles such as Light machine guns having faster sprinting, or if you're a SMG guy you have add stabability to your weapon to make it more accurate at longer distances. So, from the looks, they're trying to make each gun sutible for all play styles, which they have mentioned numerous times..
So, in closing, we can almost say for sure that is quite a few problems in the previous titles have been taken care of, but no confirmation on wether the game is "the most balanced multiplayer they've release to date" is true. We will all have to wait and see.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 31, 2011 5:11 PM (in response to AMiL3GENDx)Re: MW3 - A repeat of history
I dont know why people make such a fuss about QS because I've been playing MW2 for the past 2 weeks and have to be QS once. I have played HC moshpit, HC TDM, and Groundwar. I've seen them running around and twirling off ledges but have yet to get killed by one.
As fas as the community goes we'll just have to wait and see. Though I'm heading into this knowing that there is always going to be annoying kids in any first person shooter...its inevitable.